Curse

Dev121 · Jun 29, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

1K/Day = Waste Of Time.

Why say that the game should require alot of work , its a game for gods sake and alot of people cant play hours on end.

Anet need to get their act together and relised there doing more damage than good. Its not as if botters had a major affect on the market anyway , especially not when you can identify them easily. Anet are ruining the game right now and its not a discussion about that so ill leave that. What I will say is people should be able to get the armor they want and skills and everything else with no limits because they have a job or school or whatever other obligations.

"""" It took me half a year to get my 1st 15k set and that was back in the old days"""""""

Then you wasted half a year , it was possiblt to get enough for full 15k in the 'old days' in 1 day with the numerous farming options. What anet have done thou is take away these options and well because new plays have very limited accses to the gold routes now there will be a gap formed. Its not like you can say 15k is for elite players anymore because so many people have already got it and the loot scale update is too late.

FoW armor should be dis-regarded , I never spent time getting it and never will but thats my choice but I still should have the choice to get it if I wanted.

Basically the way to make the game next to perfect again is to :

1- Remove Loot Scale.
2- Open up factions and nightfall missions so there is no grind to do quests.
3- Offer increased rewards in all types of the game , you shouldnt have to farm to make money.
4- Make the henchmen and hero ai in hard mode elite so you dont have to rely on other people to get the areas done quickly.
5- Offer some new challanges before eye of the north , its 2 months away , people will get bored and find something elsr to play and when they do they probably wont come back.

If you want to disagree with how anet have made the game worse over time , look around you. The servers contain much less people than they use to and its hard to find real people to do stuff with.

I belive that people should be allowed to play the game anyway they want , without have a obligation to do something else to be able to continue to play the way they want but anet dont agree , 1k mission reward in HM? Thats 1 skill and for a new player that isnt ready for HM thats not even possible to get!.

Granamyr · Jun 29, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

we make tweaks as necessary to bring things back in line

Tweaks are fine....throw a mesmer in a normally 55 monk farmed area....that's a tweak. Loot scaling isn't a tweak and Hard Mode still allows the top players to earn 10x the amount of gold that the casual player does. The wealth discrepancy was not solved.....not by a long shot. Furthermore, the economy was not out of balance before the update. Ecto at 8-10k is not breaking the economy. 5k for average greens and 40-60k for the high demand ones seems about right. Again though, loot scaling didn't address these problems at all....Hard Mode is what dropped the prices.

Quote:

The rich have to work harder to make money. The casual player just has to keep doing what they doing. But now, things are cheaper.

Wrong, the rich are still making a decent amount by farming Hard Mode and even if they're making less, prices for practically everything have plummeted so the rich can now spend less too. The rich stay rich! The casual player wasn't buying high end gear to begin with so they're not benefiting from the price decreases. The casual player is buying the fixed price goods like skills, armor, runes, crafting weapons, etc. Those prices have remained constant but as illustrated by someone else, they can't sell their occasional rare gear for a good price so the casual player has less gold. That, and less white and coin are dropping as well. The poor stay poor.

Quote:

Judging from the effects of loot scaling, it looks like it was completely neccessary.

Again, try to confine your response to Loot Scaling, not the benefits of Hard Mode. Loot Scaling means people GET LESS which doesn't increase supply and lead to price drops. We would be seeing the exact same effect on the economy had they not introduced loot scaling at all......maybe even a steeper decline in prices. Loot Scaling was not necessary in the slightest.

Quote:

Anet has free reign over EVERYTHING in the game to begin with.

So unaccountability is OK with you? I'm not denying that they have, for all practical purposes, absolute power but I tend to be very wary of any group that wields that power in such a heavy-handed manner. Certainly blind support and worship when you're having things taken away is not a wise strategy. Complaining, although possible futile, at least lets em know that there is a threshold for abuse (for lack of a better word).

Quote:

While i do agree that bots can never be eliminated, loot scaling forces them to work more for the same amount of gold. This drive the REAL WORLD cost of gold up. It cuts their profits. Meanwhile, human players can make money through partying. GG.

Right on one account (although it doesn't matter) and completely wrong on the other. Bots may have less gold now but since everything costs less they still make out the same as before. Let's say you're a bot guy and you're selling 1000k at $50 before Loot Scaling ever took place. After Loot Scaling you're being forced to sell 1000k at $100 because like you said, they have to work harder for their gold. However, your customers aren't stupid and they see that the prices of pretty much all of the expensive gear has been cut in half, if not more, so they only need to buy 500k to be happy. So as a bot guy, you're making the same amount you did before Loot Scaling. Reality is that you're making more because your bots are farming in Hard Mode out of Bergen Hot Springs and other places so you're still hauling in practically as much GW as you did before but selling at a higher price.

Your second point is flat out wrong. Human players break even or worse through partying. It'd be one thing if they bumped up the drop rate for 8-man parties but they just kept it the same or made it worse. You get no benefit from being in an 8-man party.....at best you get the same as pre Loot Scaling. I cannot understand rejoicing at the fact that someone is able to maintain their meager existence at the status quo. Do you thank your boss every day for not cutting your salary?

Loviatar · Jun 29, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

I want to make that cash in a short period of time because I DON"T PLAY THAT MUCH. If I had 12 hours per day to spend, it wouldn't be a problem grinding for an hour or 6. But I only play 2 hours a day, and mostly less. To buy stuff I want, i HAVE to farm.

what you really want is a PVP type character insta equipped with the best of vanity items without bothering to play the game to get them.
if you are so bored (ALL OF YOU) of playing the game why dont you have the brains God gave a rhutabaga and take a break?

Quote:

For me, in Normal Mode, I get about 700 gold per day (in 2 hours). And that's when I'm lucky. When I get good drops, I sometimes get a little more than 1K, but that's about it.

i gave you a quick easy low level normal mode lead you by the hand farm run that gives you at least 6 times that not counting steel/dyes/collectables/hides to trade for fur

that was confirmed shortly by another poster who had similar results.

that proves it is you not the game.

Quote:

That way, the economy is way better for casual players who don't want to grind for days, but DO want to do 1 farm run so that they can buy some nice stuff, too.

right.........one run for what you consider nice stuff which starts at 15K armor and then gets expensive.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 29, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Ok - if this argument is going to continue, can we at least keep it sensible?

First, loot scaling as it was first introduced is no longer present in normal mode. I keep trying this out with several solo runs a day in different areas. I keep getting drops from EVERY SINGLE KILL after the first 5 in each area. In those areas where I have to use a few heroes, drops are comparable to what they were BEFORE loot scaling was introduced. This has been without exception for at least the last 7 days. So arguing about loot scaling as a broad concept is pointless.

Secondly, Loot scaling DOES still exist in Hard mode. So there might be some point in arguing about whether or not it should be removed from hard mode too. In my opinion loot scaling is fine in hard mode as the better drops make up for it and I make a lot more money in hard mode. Sure, the rare great drop seldom happens but I make most of my money off of the better salvage materials and mods that drop in HM.

Thirdly, Anti Farm Code does exist in that the first 5-8 kills in any area will yield very little. You may argue that this should be changed. Frankly, other than being irritating when the loot you want drops only close to the entrance (such as the gargoyle skulls in the Barraden Estate Catacombs) I don't have a problem with this and I think it does add some barrier to bots. So I think it is fine to leave it.

Fourthly, Anti Farm Code does exist in that multiple kills at once yield far less loot. I have tried this out too and when I use a farming build that uses AoE damage I get about 1/6 to 1/4 the loot I do with single kill damage. Again, this has been consistent over multiple attempts in the last 7 days. I suspect this is what is still affecting people the most, rather than loot scaling. So it might be worth while to argue about whether this should be removed. It might be argued that AoE damage kills faster and therefore yields comparable loot in a the same amount of time as single kill. It probably is an effective way to prevent bots as many of them use AoE damage to farm. Still, I think this form of Anti Farm Code is unfair to those with caster builds. It is much harder for them to use single kill damage and their lower armor forces them to kill many mobs as quickly as possible to protect themselves. I do think it is unfair to penalize them in this way and that this form of AFC should be removed or dramatically changed.

(As a matter of fact, anti-AoE code may be even worse than I have experienced. I tend to stay away from the AoE damage types when choosing Heroes and henchies. So I am probably getting the max drop rate in a full party. But if the lower AoE drop rate applies to a group of 8 as it does to soloing then, not only are you getting 1/4 - 1/6 the drops to begin with but your heroes and henchies will take 7/8 of what falls. That would mean that people with this style of play would be receiving only 1 drop in every 20 kills at the very best - and probably worse than that most of the time-especially if their heroes/henchies are also using AoE damage.)

Fifthly, arguing from extremes is pontless.

Accusing those who want Loot Scaling/Anti Farm code removed of wanting everything to be handed to them, is just plain silly. Most these people want a challenge but feel the present challenge is too steep, especially when just starting out. And they have a point. My build works great for killing things one at a time and so I get a ton of loot. But, as little loot as I get when I go AoE, I can imagine that a caster character would be horribly frustrating to play at the start. Just because they think the present challenge is too much doesn't mean they want the game to be a cake walk either.

By the same token, accusing those who have done well under loot scaling/anti farm of being hardcore framers who just want to keep the value of their own gold high is also groundless. In most cases they have found a system that works well for them and just don't understand how hard it might be for another player with another type of character to get the same amount of wealth in a similar time period. I'm not a hardcore farmer (other than for a short time 2 or 3 weeks ago) but I have made a ton of money just by grinding for lightbringer/friend of the Kurzicks in hard mode. Had I not experimented with farming AoE, I would not have realized how pathetic the drops are for that form of play.

In any case, if ANet is going to listen and continue to improve the game, we need to keep in touch with reality and not debate situations that no longer exist or accuse others of attitudes the do not have.

drago34 · Jun 29, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

No, we should NOT have to work.

This is a GAME.

G A M E

game =/= work
Besides now the crazy amount of grind is needed I wouldn't even call it work anymore.

And A-Net themselves said they want to make vanty accesable for casual players, so yeah.

15K isn\t necessity, but it IS nice to have. I think saving the world from the titans, shiro and a friggin god is enough work for my characters. they should get 100K per beaten story IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want stuff for free, but I don't want to farm for a year long just to buy a 15K armorset.

The way it was before, it was perfect. You invested time, and got income.

Yeah you do actually. You want 100k for completing the story?? So what if 15k armor is nice to have, work for it. Set a goal and work for it. It's not that complicated... I invest less time than I did into playing before loot scaling thanks to life and I make more money now...You may not be able to put 2+2 together so I'll just spell it out. Loot scaling is helping.

Edit: Even 11:40 is too early to be awake and typing haha.

Nomen Mendax · Jun 29, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alas Poor Yorick

Ok - if this argument is going to continue, can we at least keep it sensible?

First, loot scaling as it was first introduced is no longer present in normal mode ...

Secondly, Loot scaling DOES still exist in Hard mode. ...

Thirdly, Anti Farm Code does exist in that the first 5-8 kills in any area will yield very little. ...

Fourthly, Anti Farm Code does exist in that multiple kills at once yield far less loot. ...

Fifthly, arguing from extremes is pontless.
...

Please read Alas Poor Yorick's post as I think its a great place to start a discussion from, and I agree with all his observations about the current state of Anti-Farming mode (except for the stuff about HM because I haven't played HM yet).

I'd also add a sixth point:

6 - If you are going to make claims about the effect of loot scaling on the economy then please make an effort to separate it from the effect of HM on the economy. They are two different things, and we could have HM without loot scaling and I'm pretty sure that we would still see an economic effect. I've read far too many posts that say something like "I love loot scaling, because I'm playing in HM and getting much more money now".

And maybe a seventh point:

7 - If you have opinions about how other people should play the game then keep them to yourself. ANet's opinion about which play style they are trying to support with loot scaling is pretty much the only one that matters. And they claim that they want to support solo farmers (I use the word claim because, frankly I'm somewhat skeptical about it).

Prowlinger · Jun 29, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

/pandora'sboxopened

Did more runs in Factions last night... income over 2 hours in Ferndale...
350g and 1 Steel Bar

That is 2 hours guys... I killed 2 bosses and about 40 Dredge/Oni...
the mobs were big and tough too...

Let's see.... 2 hours divided by 450g (assuming 1 steel bar is 100g value)...
that is 3.75g a minute...

That is seriously pathetic.

Let's just do some speculative math:

1,350g after 6 hours....

2,750 after 12 hours...

See the grind insanity?

Maybe I am cursed but seriously... I am not the only one having these horrible drop rates...

A sensible factor would be 1k an hour at least for the area and difficulty.

I do play GW for the fun and trying to earn skills and save for special armors runes etc... now with 4 active characters... I can't even afford to keep 1 up to date with everything....

You have to remember each character is PvE... each has heroes, each need runes, weapons, inscriptions, etc....

I feel I am being forced now to play hard mode with old inactive characters JUST to be able to get a drop, tome, something, worth some decent value that can be sold so I can send the money BACK to my dead broke active characters I am trying to play Factions and Nightfall with...

Up until this point everything in GW was great... the income was modest but worked well... grinding was a major necessity to just afford the basic items or skills... now it requires over 3 times as much time just to do it...

I do not have 3 times as much time to invest just to make decent income to "survive". Some of us are not farmers. Some of us are not in large guilds. Some of us are obviously plagued with the omen. Some of us just want to play the game and not be required grind and play in hard mode before we even get the 3 main normal campaigns completed.

Loot Scaling isn't all about me...

It is about US. Either we contest this in debate for Anet or we suffer and be in debt from now on...

Andisa Kalorn · Jun 29, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I don't know why people persist in thinking that 15k armor and guild hall npcs are necessary in gw. The quests don't give you tons of cash, no, but they do give you enough to get what you need.

For a second I thought this thread might be about how loot scaling ruined the fun of solo farming. I'm one of those strange people who found certain types of solo farming fun, even if they weren't the most profitable. There was just something about seeing all those items lying on the ground for you (even if they were all crappy whites).

On the other hand, solo farming bosses is much more fun without the anti-farming code.

But this thread was not about fun. It was about making money that isn't necessary. So really, this thread should be named "loot scaling nerf - ruining my greedy ambitions".

One funny thing about loot scaling: it made money worth more, thus making the rich richer. Thanks anet!

MSecorsky · Jun 29, 2007, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Vanquished Maishang Hills last night, with a full party of heroes and henches. Remember the intent is to vanquish, not gold farm.

Result, 2 gold drops, few purples. Salvage produced a Superior Death Magic and a Radiant Insignia(both critter drops), which sold for 1.750 plat combined to the merchant. ID'd all the whites, merched everything (there was nothing really worth keeping).

Profited almost 4 Plat in what for me took about two hours (with interruptions). Also got over 3000 Luxon faction, thanks to the priests Blessing of the Luxons, which was a nice bonus. Faction can, as you all know, be traded for sell-able items if gold is your pure intent.

There were only three chests found that run, and I got lucky and retained two lock picks. Sadly, this run had bad chest luck... only one gold (a less than ideal Jade Wand, which ID'd for 426 gold).

Added to storage 1 steel and 2 monstrous fangs, courtesy of loose-toothed Naga.

Loviatar · Jun 29, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

/pandora'sboxopened

Did more runs in Factions last night... income over 2 hours in Ferndale...
350g and 1 Steel Bar

That is 2 hours guys... I killed 2 bosses and about 40 Dredge/Oni...
the mobs were big and tough too...

Let's see.... 2 hours divided by 450g (assuming 1 steel bar is 100g value)...
that is 3.75g a minute...

That is seriously pathetic.

PATHETIC BEYOND .........

*you have been playing for 1 hour*

empty inventory except expert salvage kit and zero gold at start

normal mode/lowlands vermin/fill inventort sell except a few expert salvage for steel

1 (ONE) HOUR

2.4K GOLD/SALES
5 STEEL OUT OF 14 TRIES (AXES ONLY)
2 BROWN DYE
3 GREEN
5 ORANGE AND I HATE ORANGE
2 RED
1 PURPLE
5 FURS FROM 23 CHAR HIDES
CARVINGS/SKULLS/FOR EVENTS LATER

ONE HOUR .....no complaints here

usually less steel dyes are average

spellsword · Jun 29, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Is it so smurfing hard to understand that we might want nice looking armor and weapons too without having to play 24/7? We don't need them? Why not remove them altogether then? Seriously... Getting neat stuff is a part of the game that we enjoy, we shouldn’t be deprived of it because we aren't leet enough. You say you can still make money? Then you must be playing a different game, because the money I am making is a joke. There was no reason for this change. It didn't help anyone, and it didn't make the game more fun.

MSecorsky · Jun 29, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellsword

You say you can still make money? Then you must be playing a different game, because the money I am making is a joke.

Well then that begs the question: What are you doing wrong?

One bit of help I can offer is this... ID everything, even your whites. You can double the merch value if you do, and it costs only 5g per ID.

strcpy · Jun 29, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowlinger

That is 2 hours guys... I killed 2 bosses and about 40 Dredge/Oni...
the mobs were big and tough too...

There is your problem - that is pitiful, in fact that is so low I can't see how you do it. Even in hard mode and the hench/hero I can do *nothing* and have a kill rate well over 4 times of that (and that is totally irrelevant of my skills - anyone can grab hench and set a flag). 120 minutes and you kill *42* creatures - one per ever 2.8 minutes? I'm assuming a group of 8, I hope you do not tell me that is your solo farm run (that's not a terrible solo farm kill rate but you are not in an area that is worth a crap in farming).

Given the rate you *should* be killing things at and how much you are making per mob you *should* then be making about what I normally do in just playing the game.

scrinner · Jun 29, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

What is a steel bar? Isn't that something from runescape?

Levi Garett · Jun 29, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

If you're not making 10k/hour (with loot scaling) you have some serious issues. I suggest you check out the farming sub-forum here on Guru. Lots of profitable places to farm there that can easily net 10k/hour (and that's not even including rare drops that you can sell to other players).

Granamyr · Jun 29, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I'm not going to deny that there are ways to make money out there. Opportunities exist for all walks of life to make money from the casual gamer to the hardcore elitist. Likewise, arguing about necessity vs desire in a video game is rather absurd.

What seems like a definite no-brainer to me though is the fact that Loot Scaling:
1. Helps no one or at best helps the very rich by increasing the value of their gold.
2. Hurts a wide variety of players from casual types to solo AoE farmers.
3. Does little in the (futile and neverending) fight against bots.
4. Was completely unnecessary and has hurt the fans of this game much more than it has helped (if it can be said at all that is has helped in ANY way).

Please tell me where I'm wrong in any of the above. Please demonstrate how having stuff taken away from you or other types of players has a net positive result (ie does more good than harm).

reetkever · Jun 29, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

what you really want is a PVP type character insta equipped with the best of vanity items without bothering to play the game to get them.
if you are so bored (ALL OF YOU) of playing the game why dont you have the brains God gave a rhutabaga and take a break?

Well yeah, if possible I'd like armor and skills to be free. And what's wrong with that? My characters friggin save worlds and they don't even get a nice reward? At least the game would get FUN if I could get things like keys, skills, event items etc. And it wouldn't be a brainless grind.

You should understand that we're not all rich. That doesn't take away that we don't want anything.

And I'm not bored, I'm just angry cause A-Net ripped me off in saying that they'd improve things, but actually made things worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

i gave you a quick easy low level normal mode lead you by the hand farm run that gives you at least 6 times that not counting steel/dyes/collectables/hides to trade for fur

that was confirmed shortly by another poster who had similar results.

that proves it is you not the game.

Ohh so it's my fault that I'm not getting any drops? It sure as hell doesn't give ME 6 times the amount. I'm not getting sh!t while farming now. Only clearing the way from bergen to Toa in HM gets me about 2K, but that also costs me about 2 hours to do.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

right.........one run for what you consider nice stuff which starts at 15K armor and then gets expensive.

Nice stuff are things like keys, event items and skills. I don't want 15K armor in 1 farm run, I don't need it, either. Especially after the loot scaling buying 15K armor is just stupid, cause you'll never EVER make so much cash again.

The point is, it's good for you that you have cash and 15K armors and everything. And that you can make cash easy, GFY.

But I can't. Why? Cause A-Net keeps nerfing everything I do. Buying skills sucks now cause it's way expensive, and A-Net keeps changing them so I need other skills again. Buying weapons is worthless. I don't care for super rare skins, and I don\t have 100K + x ecto (Yes the price is still over 100K + ecto after the scaling)

Most farm runs (if not already nerfed) still cost me too much to buy for skills, runes and weapons required for the run. And the simple runs like trolls sometimes don't give me ANYTHING (that's right, 0 drops).

ca_aok · Jun 29, 2007, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Personally I'm just glad I got my FoW right before loot scale hit. Now I don't have too many other armor grind targets left.

Back when I was going for my first set of 15K (15K kurz), I farmed shiroken. Now this never got me any crazy golds aside from two non-perfect diamond aegises. What it did give me is money, in white items, soulstones, and keys (I still have ~30 keys from back when I farmed). This run was both boring and frustrating at times, since Shiroken seem to be experts at interupting the 1/4 cast time of PS and SB. However, doing this for 30min-1hr a day (if that), I was able to get 15K in 2-3 weeks. I feel this is reasonable. This farm actually took effort (bots couldn't do it, too much timing involved), was decently profitable, and was moderately fun.

If I now went back and did that (assuming no spirit bond nerf) it would take months to get 15K. Months to get roughly 120K (this was before amber really plummeted). This is completely unreasonable. Months of farming everyday, even casually, should be roughly the amount of time it takes to get FoW, not 15K.

One could argue that hard mode offsets this slightly. However the rewards for vanquishing and HM missions are generally utter crap. It's only the hardcore farmers that make money in HM, not the people playing through the game normally (which is what I assume ANET is trying to encourage).

As for whoever mentioned the skill tokens idea, I'd personally do almost every quest in the game if that was implemented.. Why? Most quest rewards are utter garbage. 150g and some exp? Sometimes no gold. Prophecies quests are especially useless (other than the skill quests). Why would I go through the trouble of a quest when the reward is 300xp? ANET claims skill quests led to lack of diversity in builds, but I disagree... my prophecies toons generally have many more skills than their factions/nightfall counterparts. More skills = more diversity. And with the skill token system, ANET gets the best of all worlds... quests with rewards people actually want, free skills for casual players just for playing the game, and diversity in skills since players can choose which skills to trade their tokens for.

Loviatar · Jun 29, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Well yeah, if possible I'd like armor and skills to be free. And what's wrong with that? My characters friggin save worlds and they don't even get a nice reward? At least the game would get FUN if I could get things like keys, skills, event items etc. And it wouldn't be a brainless grind.

as i said.........given on a plater

Quote:

You should understand that we're not all rich. That doesn't take away that we don't want anything.

i am not rich i just spend withi my means and after over 2 years it adds up.

i have never sold a big drop for big bucks ever.

i give away or merch or salvage

Quote:

Ohh so it's my fault that I'm not getting any drops? It sure as hell doesn't give ME 6 times the amount. I'm not getting sh!t while farming now.

here is what i got this morning in one hour of that kowlands vermin hunt fron my earlier post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

*you have been playing for 1 hour*

empty inventory except expert salvage kit and zero gold at start

normal mode/lowlands vermin/fill inventort sell except a few expert salvage for steel

1 (ONE) HOUR

2.4K GOLD/SALES
5 STEEL OUT OF 14 TRIES (AXES ONLY)
2 BROWN DYE
3 GREEN
5 ORANGE AND I HATE ORANGE
2 RED
1 PURPLE
5 FURS FROM 23 CHAR HIDES
CARVINGS/SKULLS/FOR EVENTS LATER

ONE HOUR .....no complaints here

Quote:

The point is, it's good for you that you have cash and 15K armors and everything. And that you can make cash easy, GFY.

i have one 15K armor for my favorite character and i spent 5k on a factions +5 wand as well everybody else and their heroes get hand me downs

Quote:

Most farm runs (if not already nerfed) still cost me too much to buy for skills, runes and weapons required for the run. And the simple runs like trolls sometimes don't give me ANYTHING (that's right, 0 drops).

what special things do you need to kill things in normal mode in the lowlands?

Dev121 · Jun 29, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

4k = 1/2 Hours. WoW. I didnt Relise it was that bad.

Theres a few way to get a better pay such as aforge runs netting 10k at least every 20 mins . But its about having to do something you dont want to do. Glad I bought Everything ill ever need when I made like 4k in 2 minutes

.